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Group: Pocatello, Idaho

Teachers: Daniel, Tomas

Topic: Religionists As Believers

August 25, 1995

Opening prayer

Tomas:(TR #2): "Good evening you who constitute this young assemblage of students of truth, beauty and goodness, I am Tomas. I greet you this evening coupled with Daniel who stands steadfastly beside us. Welcome again to this format of assimilating higher concepts that you may then disperse your wisdom into your environment affecting your planetary arena with good energy and fellowship.

An example of the harmony and diversity of personality is the week you have enjoyed since partaking of the energies inherent in a congregation of believers such as was witnessed and felt by all last weekend in Woods Cross, as well as throughout your land on subsequent occasions in celebrations of the natal anniversary of our Creator, Christ Michael.

Some of the goodness which you have enjoyed this week is a direct result of the increased adoration and the acclaim sent up from your earnest and eager souls. As more and more human beings begin to tap into the reality which you are beginning to develop and believe in more and more, will these elations take hold and become the norm. This is evolution in action; and your endeavors and steadfast interest in our work together enables you to hold firm in your faith sufficiently that you are not toppled at the vagaries of your existence but rather find strength and sustenance in your fellow believers.

As you all are aware religionists need one another to foster that recognition of the divine in the reflection of one to the other. The acknowledgement of the Indwelling Host is that which gives your reality its fervor and it seeks to express itself. Thus social situations come into being and as I indicated in our lesson recently we would begin now to delve into those social aspects of personality expression which constitute the gifts of one who has acknowledged their sonship and daughterdom and who have found intellectual satisfaction and emotional peace. Yes, I present this description to you in faith that you have contained within your various consciousnesses that which can be called up to deliver your unified personality as a socially fragrant child of the living God.

As we pursue the outreaching efforts it is perhaps wise for me to address what to guard against; and uppermost is a sense of spiritual superiority stemming from your status as students of the Teaching Mission and of the Urantia Book. Although these phases of the fifth epochal revelation to mankind/womankind/humankind are revelatory in your awareness there are other truths, other poignancies, other religious experiences which are valid in the lives of all believers. These words that I convey in caution are but a brief paragraph and yet the lesson behind my words is important and may take some time for some of you to understand fully. The attitude of religious ego is common in all people of faith.

Always in believers is there a shard of prejudice and preference for that individual's comprehension of truth, beauty and goodness. When you blessed new apostles seek to spew forth those words and attitudes which bespeak a being who is becoming perfect, and through the auspices of such a grave, onerous and awesome tome as the Urantia Book, is there cause for deep reflection. Even so in your journey into your arena, which is the work of your realm, you will be confronted with those Mystery Monitors of our Father which will enlighten you as you pass by in your efforts to enlighten others. Thus social fragrance is spread and made more. In this way the love of our Creator is able to infiltrate those social situations which give rise to the food which you are all fattened upon today as a result of your inner actions with your comrades in faith, in, certainly, your theology. But this journey into the fields relieves you of your potentially hazardous egoistic approach and puts you shoulder to shoulder with other believers of other doctrines and dimensions.

Having now made note of that caution let us array ourselves in fresh raiment and venture forth into the arena in anticipation of the exchanges which will result from our acknowledged need for contact with other human beings who also believe. For not only is your work among the nonbeliever but the acknowledged and professed religionist as well. It is suggested that as you issue forth that internal radiance which you house, as you give off those patterns which instill a reaction, which prompt contact others will be drawn to you. When you are also drawn to bring out the best in your fellows you may brush with their reality so gently and fragrantly you are then not considered a threat or a challenge but an individual with whom they can feel relative peace and lack of judgement. Now you have opened the door for further discourse, further expression of love and deeper manifestation of truth, beauty and goodness.

The social arena as you have seen it on Urantia has been a necessary facet of the valid pleasure seeking aspects of mortal existence. It has yet to see its full fruition and torch bearers are, again, needed to set the tone, to establish the lighting, to harmonize the props, figuratively speaking, that will create a spiritual ambiance that will invite the participants to a spiritual dance. Many sensitive mortals have sought to forgo the social arena because of the 'plastic' aspects of modern day socialization. But we encourage you rather to take your strength of character and your grace into any environment which you feel led by the Spirit to embrace or investigate.

You are indeed new apostles. You are workers in the field. You are the ambassadors of Michael's Kingdom. It is my hope that in future sessions we shall have opportunity to visit again with the Morontia Companions who are specifically gifted in their experience of socializing their beliefs in a way that transcends written words and sets it in a level of perception which any seeker would feel at home in.

My comrade is on line and it is good for this configuration to work again with his configuration of Debbie's words and energies which is a stepway of faith. I have missed you, Debbie, and am glad you are regained in strength. And now I seek the words also of teacher Daniel."

Daniel(TR #1): "Greetings. It is always our happiness to be with you on these evenings as you join not only in your desire to become knowledgeable, your desire to be so encouraged and your desire to know the Father, but also in your camaraderie together, your human support system in this time of uncertainty. My dear friends Tomas' words are filled with many aspects that can and will produce not only character growth but in bringing forth character growth one is able to raise their total understanding another notch in regard to who and what they are.

It is within your mindset now and your intellectual understanding of your humanship with the First Source and Center. It is a process that takes time and continual encouragement to bring forth that which is intellectually understood into the framework of producing, into the framework of truly being or living. In this regard you are all knowledgeable that the First Source and Center is the uniting force for all, that you truly are a part of a grand family, a family that will increase manyfold as the time progresses into the future.

Comprehension of such an idea is most difficult for time/space beings for it is even hard for you to imagine the population map of your own country, let alone that of this planet, let alone that of all the universes. It is a concept that magnification tends to confuse, tends to bring you into a mindset of, 'yes, I understand but cannot completely comprehend'. It is, therefor, exceedingly important that you begin with your own self in your own understanding of this connection, your sonship, your daughtership with the First Source and Center and brotherhood/sisterhood to one another. As you grow into the aspect of pure intellect to the integration of eternal knowingness your actions will become more in line in your treatment of one another, in your treatment of yourself. And so while you have taken that intellectual step and while you are now in the process of complete internalization there will be times when the automatic reflex of your being will speak to that nature of oneness, of unity. Happy and joyous will you be. Glad of heart will you feel. For it is, indeed, that feeling exactly when you have reached beyond the fetters of the material into a morontial concept.

And while your life goes on you will be on the roly-coaster of dipping in and out, riding up and down in this concept. It cannot be always on one plane for it is rare that material natures are able to completely turn over to spirit at all times. Planets that are in evolution grow step by step, process by process. It is our great joy as we witness your abilities to reach those higher plateaus, those times when without thought, without contemplative thinking you react and you walk in the spirit, knowledge, understanding and wisdom of this aspect of knowing what it is to be a son or daughter of the First Source and Center.

As your desire to maintain and further reach and stretch for morontial understanding so, too, will your lives reflect this aspect. It can be no other way. Good begets good. Those who daily work to understand and know the Father's will for them slowly begin to understand. You are all doing that, my friends. Tomas and I delight as you move into these higher avenues of thought and action. We will now accept or entertain any questions or discourse with you."

Carla: "Tomas this is Carla. Thank you for your words of caution for all of we who are hopefully ascending and working at it. It is very easy to have a religious ego unless one keeps closer and remembers we are ascending because that puts us in the proper perspective.

The word 'religionist' is one that I am somewhat disturbed by, primarily because 'ist' rather than inherent seems to me to be those that..I can't really figure out why 'religionist' or 'womanist' or what all that means. I guess maybe because it sometimes sets up a separate sense of identity which is separating, like a separatist. I wondering if we can have some conversation about that and maybe help me figure out about that word, like another word that might be used, what that might be?"

Tomas: "I am happy to discourse with you on any matter. This word 'religionist' is a good one. The word itself I lifted from the Urantia Book and have also pondered its meaning in terms of mortal understanding. The negative connotations of 'ist' and 'isms' is unfortunate for words convey information and words also can bring forth prejudices. For they are often used as a blanket to cover a multitude of iniquities and ignorance.

But in reference to 'religionists' I would propose that it references those individuals, who, for one reason or another, make a study of religion. And the religionist as is conveyed in the ideal is that individual who studies his own reactions to life in terms of his relationship with God and his spiritual family, thus his mortal family as well. So it is a handy word and the same essence could be conveyed in, for instance, 'fellow believers' need one another. But the problem with 'fellow believers' is that separation or 'ism' is even more likely for the true seeker of truth will find value in the religion or belief of anyone rather than limiting it to a specific coloration. Also, many are nonbelievers who are, in fact, religionists."

Carla: "I think that helps me put the notion of why religionist seems to...and I know that if that is from the Urantia Book that certainly there are some persons that are religionists who are nonbelievers. I guess I make a differentiation between those who are immersed in a study or religion and those who are really cultivating spirituality but wouldn't want to be called a 'spiritualist' either and more than what is necessarily called a 'religionist'. Believers are more than just students. Those of us who practice religion or practice spirituality in a given path toward a particular religion..I'm just happier calling us 'beings' who are seekers. Maybe 'seekers is for me is the word that would take away the negative part of 'religionist'. I will continue to struggle with that. Thank you."

Tomas: "I am reluctant to allow you to continue to struggle. Therefor I will continue in this discourse a bit further."

Carla: "That would be fine."

Tomas: "Think now in terms of believers which for you connotes lambs of God in faith. Yet there are believers in rather backward concepts. How much do you need those who succumb to backward concepts? Do you see the differentiation there?"

Carla: "Well I do. But as you are speaking what I hear is really a reflection back on those very words of religious ego or knowing that those who may appear to be backward, or not only appear but are backward, once we make that call puts in that separating rather than enjoying attitude, and therefor tends to set up a hierarchy which is what your primary point about religious ego and succumbing to any particular WAY as being best. So that's the tension."

Tomas: "I will make bold to reach into my own mortal experience and seek an example of what I mean to say. You understand that although I was educated, cultured and civilized I delved into the social and religious practices of rather backward people, people which I came to love and respect and honor. The peculiarities, however, of their practices were not helpful to me and they did not feed me in a spiritual way as in the phrase, 'religionists need each other'. I also learned from these peoples; I also taught these people and had great compassion for their simplicity and primitive but joyous ways.

It was not a stand of superiority which I took with me nor which enabled me to mingle and study and grow with these tribes and personages. But it was only truly upon my return to my own peers that we could discourse on the relative merits and demerits of the lifestyle of those we studied. They did not believe as I did but spiritually they were not the less. Am I getting into a quagmire of a conundrum here?"

Carla: "Maybe we are both there together!(laughter) Because I might ask do you consider yourself a religionist? I don't consider myself a religionist in the terms that I hear religionist being used. I guess my concern is that 'religionist' is too broad a spectrum for 'religion'. When we speak of a physicist we are talking about one who specifically works in physics and that is a narrowly defined discipline. And we talk about 'chemist' and that again is relatively defined/focused discipline. But religionist tends to clump those who are and those who aren't in..and I guess as humans we are all religionists in some form or other because religion, whether we name it or not, and the study of that is our beginning point of seeking or describing a path."

Tomas: "If I may?"

Carla: "Surely."

Tomas: "Your example of the physicist points out that if you will scratch a physicist you will find much of his or her mind dedicated to the concept of physics, that their dreams include concepts relating to physics, their musing and daydreams focus on that which they love. The religionist muses and daydreams and has creative imaginings, reviews conversations in light of, as would any avid student of that which is important."

Carla: "So then are Urantians religionists?"

Tomas: "I smile when you ask that question for, in the first place, any being on the face of Urantia is an Urantian. It is not limited, you see, to those who are familiar with the Urantia Book."

Carla: "Um Hm. Exactly. My experience with physicists is that they are ones that make that tie between religion and physics, their language and expression. But they are very deeply religios people."

Tomas: "This is a physicist who is a religionist."

Carla: "Okay."

Tomas: "The other subtle differentiation which comes to mind is.. (the difficulty in saying what comes to mind throws my TR for a loop because her mind goes completely blank). So I will try not to use that personalized phrase."

Daniel(TR #1): "My dears, Tomas and Carla, if I may at this point add to this discourse."

Carla: "Thank you Daniel."

Daniel: "The vehicle through which I speak this evening had today an experience which brought immense disharmony and disequalibrium to her being and thoughts. While attending a funeral the ceremony referred often to the church. And in this vehicle's understanding it was truly separating. It was truly binding and imprisoning and belittling, that which all humans are, that which I have spoken about tonight. Language, as you see, can very easily limit.

But if you will reach beyond language to what is real, and the reality is that all are created by the First Source and Center. All are part of the One. All are united. And to define by saying 'church' or 'believers' tends to limit. What is freeing is to open up to the fact that no matter what religion, what church, what belief, in the end the First Source and Center has maintained a tie to that individual through the Thought Adjuster. Again, through that aspect of your being, that gift from the Father you are on that pathway. You are the seeker searching for the homing light. Has this helped?"

Carla: "I think it helps articulate kind of why 'religionist' comes to me as it seems...perhaps 'religionist' would imply that it is all done. That there is not a journey and so I guess I am not going to use the word 'religionist'. And I really don't like it and I don't think it merits describing, because as you say it does tend to belittle the good news as you have just described, that all are created by the First Source and Center. But then when I read that in the Urantia Book, 'religionist', is that meant to be a statement about one who perceives that it is all over and done with, as some of us use the term 'Pharisee'?"

Daniel: "It is not implied as such. You see the First Source and Center is not over and done with. The Supreme is still evolving and once you have reached your state of Spirit then there is the next step of looking into the absonite. And so you see it can never be truly complete. 'Religionist' as defined by the Urantia Book should mean all those who have a set of understandings that demonstrate that the First Source and Center is the living God of all, that the First Source and Center is continually creating through each and every one. It is only through one's experiences and understandings that the words become set. As the concept of the First Source and Center becomes greatly amplified, understood by the peoples of Urantia and as each person is able to have their own belief, yet in a unifying concept of the First Source and Center and the brotherhood and sisterhood, then will the term, 'religionist' not signify this set of people believing this way with certain ceremonies and certain books and certain guidelines and this set, etc. But it will encompass all. It is to this end and to this broader meaning that the term 'religionist' is infused in the Urantia Book. Is that more rounded for you?"

Carla: "It is very helpful. For when I have read or heard the term it was somewhat pejorative. I don't need to say why because I have already said why, why it distressed me."

Daniel: "Yes."

Carla: "And you and I have had a discussion before of why I think language is so formative. I now know that I never really will use it because it does nothing to enhance what we truly want that wholeness to be!"

Daniel: "At this state of your evolution the word 'religionist' does connote a limitedness. But you see in terms of the Urantia Book and its prospect for future evolution, the word 'religionist' maintains an openness and unity for all seekers and those on that pathway to understanding the First Source and Center as the creator of all and the understanding that you are all brothers and sisters; and the understanding of love and forgiveness; and the understanding of ascension. It is a book that is not meant to be the only aspect and it is not meant to be like some would use the Bible to be spoken of literally. But rather it is to be used as that guideline to help you as you grow personally and as your planet grows collectively in evolutionary processes.

And so your decision to not use that term is quite alright. It is not a necessary term to use. What is hoped is that by this conversation you have gleaned an understanding that this word is in the process of evolving as well."

Carla: "That is definitely true. And that's what I was thinking as you were talking. Which does even further affirm the vitality and aliveness and the living word of our being as process. Not only we as a people and our ideas but also our words are giving that same kind of life. Thank you Daniel."

Tomas: "I would add one more word..."

Carla: "Okay."

Tomas: " acknowledge that I, myself, am a religionist inasmuch as I reflect upon my religious life and how it seemingly reflects on the lives of others. It is not in competition with my faith. But it is reflective, you see."

Carla: "Uh huh, I do. And in that context I can use the word 'religionist' and I can hear it as it is meant to be, and I guess I can pray that everybody else who uses it will use it as it is meant to be."

Tomas: "Indeed!"

Carla: "Thank you, both of you, and the rest of the group for letting me work this through."

Daniel: "At the expense of not wanting to appear grateful and thankful my vehicle has asked me to convey to you, Tomas, her thanks and gratitude. And I would likewise like to say that while I and Tomas also enjoy the experience of working through others who are in receptivity it is always much easier and more comforting to transmit through those whom we are most familiar. For the dilemma on our side is in understanding the mindset of those who are our voice. For here again this problem of language, this problem of understanding all the little subtleties and innuendos associated with words are that which we wish to convey. It is often difficult when we work through many personages to ascertain those words. When we are heard through those with whom we are most familiar we find our job is easier; you would say less stressful. And so, Tomas, Deborah sends you her love and accepts yours."

Carla: "This is Carla again. Daniel your conversation triggered a thought in me. I don't know if we want to talk about it or not but when I read the Bible and when I peruse those scriptures I am fully aware that they are inspired by our God but they are indeed written by persons who are vehicles as well. As you were speaking I noted a parallel as you are our teacher yet your words are conveyed. I also wondered if that is a parallel with the words of the Urantia Book as they were revealed as well?"

Daniel: "The Bible has come down from a long tradition and much of what you read today was that which was passed on by word of mouth from one generation teaching another and eventually these traditions and these understandings were transcribed. In some regards, some sense, yes, there is always that slant from whom the original author was and their understanding, their experience.

As for the Urantia Book the various papers are written and presented by various personalities ranging from Mighty Messengers to Seraphim to Melchizadeks, etc., as you see when you read through these papers. The papers often have a flare from the personality of the presenter. This is the information I can tell you."

Carla: "Thank you. That is helpful and is somewhat what I had anticipated."

Daniel: "It is nice, Carla, to have you back and to entertain your questions."

Carla: "Thank you, Daniel. I appreciate that."

Tomas: "In view of the extensive outpouring of words and concepts which have been laid upon our plates this evening it would perhaps be beneficial to us all if we were to end our formal portion of this evening's agenda. I and Daniel have been observing and contributing to the various conversations having to do with where you and we are in our lesson plan at this point and are also in abeyance of the appropriate adaptations in full confidence of our association."

Daniel: "Well, Tomas, we almost made it on one tape. We are windbags, are we not? And so with that let us ask you this week to fill your plate with those things that will help to imprint and internalize for you the understanding, the knowledge, and the wholeness of your membership in this great family that spreads through aeons of time, aeons of space and yet resides in complete wholeness and unity. You are, indeed, connected to one another. You are brothers and sisters. You are sons and daughter of He Who has created the heavens and earth.

Go this week and contemplate in those still moments what does it truly mean to have this honor of being so created by our loving Father? What does this honor ask me to be? How is it that I must react to my fellow voyagers? How is it that I am to view those who I see, those who I know not of? These are but a fraction of the questions that you can delve into. Each time you are able to answer one question the reality of that truth of your sonship and daughtership becomes more and more manifested in your life and in your workings. Go now in peace knowing and loving one another. Tomas and I give you our love. Good evening."