Daniel; Tomas; Ham - Topic on Forgiveness - Feb 03, 1995 - Pocatello, Idaho

Group: Pocatello, Idaho

Teachers: Daniel, Tomas, Ham

Topic: Forgiveness

February 3, 1995

Opening prayer

Daniel(TR #2): "Welcome once again loyal students to this arena wherein we come together in minds focused on peace, harmony, tranquility and justice. I am Daniel, your teacher, your friend, and companion in these proceedings.

I am with you this evening in appreciation of your sustained attendance and willingness to gather to pursue your eternal destiny in companionship with other mortals and your spirit helpers. Tomas is in attendance as well. He has equated this gathering this evening to me as you would understand the energies prior to a symphony wherein the individuals settle in their seats and make social contact with their friends and neighbors and the instruments make their preliminary warming up noises. Microphones are adjusted and chairs shuffle until at last the hall is ready for the performance of the symphony or the play.

I shared that with you to enlighten your understanding of how we perceive you sometimes when you assemble at the hall. There is a large crowd in attendance this evening outside your seeing, yet they are filling the mezzanine and it is standing room only.

The lesson this evening is on forgiveness and you have been well addressed in this matter previously. And yet you recall we have some elementary focus points and one of these is forgiveness. I will address this matter of forgiveness of others and abstain in addressing forgiveness of self until another time.

Your perceptions of forgiveness are curtailed by your sense of offense for your lives are circumscribed; and the occasion for forgiveness is usually short range and is often accomplished by a courtesy as in 'excuse me or pardon me, I offended you'. The forgiveness forthcoming is fairly resilient and responsive. Yet the realm of forgiveness extends into arenas and fields far beyond your immediate awareness and sensibility.

Most of you have become accustomed to offenses from your fellow men and women. We are aware of the relative imperfection, the lack of perception of mankind at large. The offenses which we observe taking place consistently have become second nature, have evolved up from far more barbaric behaviors, yet have still far to go in evolution. When sensibilities and sensitivities toward your fellows, toward one another have upstepped the realm of freedom your personalities will be greatly extended.

Matters of forgiveness involve matters of cultural conditioning. Overlooking ignorance is not the same as forgiving, for overlooking does not require God-consciousness. Forgiveness requires a sense of understanding of human frailty based upon an understanding of the antecedent causation and potential. To forgive is divine. To observe the pain of suffering in your fellow men and women from offenses against them, individually or collectively, is to see the.... (one moment). I am having difficulty with this TR. I have asked Tomas to take over this lesson in anticipation of her comfort and he has obliged."

Tomas: "Good evening, I am Tomas. I am your teacher, one of many teachers. It gives me great pleasure to be here with you in this great hall of learning. I fear that the analogy of the performance has affected my TR and she has become smitten with stage fright!

The lesson on forgiveness is one of rudimentary value, for the levels of understanding regarding forgiveness are many and cannot be accomplished in one short lesson. Your/our focus this evening was and is on the aspects of forgiveness on a grand scale.

We have had to forgive Lucifer for his default, for the devastation wrought upon your world; and we are assimilating that value lesson into our teaching ministry, for the effects of your evolutionary status are fraught with offenses. Forgiveness is a necessary aspect of correction. It is not forward thinking or behaving to withhold forgiveness when confusion is so rampant. Addressing a forgiveness is gracious and requires graciousness. The courageous soul will, in fact, focus on, point out, and elucidate the point of forgiveness from the point of view of the integrity of the individual. That is to say, this is a sharing process.

To assume someone has offended is a perception. Therefor the resolution, the opening of the door for free flow of love and communication, is brought about through communion with the value at question. (long silence)

My friend is unfortunately overmuch involved in these transmission this evening. I and Daniel are postponing further discourse until reinforcements are resumed. You may trust we will resume. And in explanation I ask you to recognize that this process is developmental and has developed along certain lines. The channel which has existed between these two servants has become viable and dependable. Allow, forgive the moment. I and we are willing to attempt answering a question or inducing discourse at this time."

Debbie: "Good evening Tomas and Daniel. I will say that I am sorry that I was not part of this tonight [didn't TR] but sometimes the human aspect interferes too.

I do have a question. It is a question that has been on my mind all week and so I was thrilled when I heard you say forgiveness tonight. I have been wondering how one knows if one needs to forgive? As people are in relationships there are times when things are said and things are done because we are people. Often things are said only because of the state of being that the person is in at the time and their level of understanding and level of maturity, and all that kind of stuff. And so I guess what I am saying is there are times when there is hurt in a relationship. Does that hurt have to be forgiven or is there anything that needs to be forgiven? You, in fact, understand where the other person is coming from. You don't really personalize what is being said, but yet there is still hurt. And so I was wondering, do you need to forgive then? And then I guess in thinking further about that I thought that, well, maybe the hurt comes from you knowing where the person is and you hurt for them because of the place that they are in. And that this is mainly where the hurt is...I don't know. Are you understanding my question? And can you give me some kind of input on that?"

Daniel: "I am hearing your inquiry, but it is two or three things. Forgiveness is a state of being wherein you are immune to the offenses of others for your being is so firmly connected to your spirit reality that nothing can cause offense, for it is all human error. Your challenge is to sustain that place of being so spiritized that the communication which might cause hurt is seen for what is actually emitting from that individual's point of distress. This requires great love, great understanding, and is made more available by reclaiming your spirit identity through stillness. The realm of operation from within this God-knowingness allows the offenses to become roadblocks and signs for your decision to help heal the rift or communication block or most specifically to the distress of the other individual. Much of forgiveness is service, service to yourself and to your fellows, and, indeed, to God. For you are then in a position to work for the issue with perspective.

Hurts happen between people. It is a quandary often as to whether the hurt was intentionally afflicted. Yet you know that at the heart of that individual is a God Fragment (Who would not hurt anyone), which is love. The same holds true for you. Therefor, who with eyes to see and ears to hear would not seek to assuage or salve the wounds which occurred, the offenses which caused the rift or the need for further communication or understanding? The realm of forgiveness is vast. Have I, Daniel, approached your inquiry sufficiently for that question?"

Debbie: "Yes, Daniel. It has given me a lot to think about. I know the question was not stated clearly but you, being tied to me as closely as you are, understood and the answer was very good. I think that reinforcements are on the way now so, we'll see."

Daniel: "You are most welcome, my friend. I also thank you for your support. For without your involvement how could I be? All of your involvement is allowing these growth efforts to bring about truth and light in your lives and in the lives of those who watch not only Urantia but all of Nebadon with fond and avid interest. Growth in spiritual terms, and therefor in subsequent material terms, is our work."

Debbie: "Thank you Daniel for those words of...Symbiotic relationships do nurture both. Thank you very much."

Nancy: "Daniel and Tomas, I am amazed at the choice of a lesson. It seems like it has been a long time since one hit home so closely to what I needed to hear. Perhaps..I don't know. As I am sure you are aware, perhaps from communication with Linda earlier today or obviously from sharing time earlier this evening, I am finding myself very, very upset about a social condition. You have talked about the need for global forgiveness and I really did want to hear more about that. But particularly in my case I am at a loss to know what to forgive, who to forgive. I realize that feeling the pain that I am feeling, feeling the upset and the emotion that I am feeling, there is obviously a need for forgiveness. But I don't even know where to begin. And I'm wondering if you could address that, please."

Ham(TR #3): "This is Ham. I am in attendance as well and am greatly interested in this most serious and important topic, not only for Urantians, not only for this group, not only for you as individuals, but because this lesson continues to unfold beyond the mortal career. Before I attempt an answer specifically, my dear daughter PamElla, I would like to comment further in view of what has been said by my brothers Daniel and Tomas in response to Rutha's question.

The First Source and Center as He views the imperfections of mortal life, (and the Second and Third Centers as well), as God in His Deity and in His perfection views mortal life, there is no sense of an offense to forgive, for His perception is so all encompassing that, 'He understands', as your Scripture says, 'our weakness. He knows that we are dust'. He knows our limitations. He knows the pitfalls of mortal life. And so He is not subject to your experience as a mortal, the struggle to overcome outrage and anger, the hatred, the flaring toward the offender/perpetrator, the wrongdoer. But He understands.

As any parent knows, a child has much to learn and much to gain only through experience. And so, as you have intimated, the broader perspective of God, the Trinity Deity, does not have to struggle to forgive, but understands in an understanding which, in a sense, transcends forgiveness. Therefor as you begin to perceive another's level you are in God-consciousness. You are above a merely mortal plane of understanding. And you share, it is my supposition, you share that pain of the other vicariously, even as you have questioned, for you remember how it was for you perhaps at that stage when you would have thought and acted in such a manner.

In response to PamElla my thoughts are that you are sharing the empathy of one who has known the hurt of disappointment, betrayal, as nearly all mortals have that experience. And your compassion, grief, and concern for these others is an indication of your spiritual growth. Even Christ Michael fully experienced this grief over the injustice of this world. He grieved mightily over the fact that His own Sons were the perpetrators of this rebellion. And yet He loved them, offered them forgiveness, offered them renewal, and wept bitterly when they refused His final offer. It is part of human experience, it is part of Deity experience to know grief and to feel those confused feelings. Have my comments helped either of you?"

Nancy(PamElla): "Yes. That is helpful. I have a further question. God has no need to forgive. My question is, is offense simply in the eye of the beholder? Is it simply a perception? Or does it, in fact, exist, have reality? I guess I realize that if the perception were proper I suppose one could recognize the offense without responding to it emotionally. Does it not remain an offense?"

Daniel(TR #2): "It remains an ignorant perception and Urantia is filled with those. They constitute much of your lives. Inherent are they on a planet prior to Light and Life. The offense, if any, indeed is in the eye of the beholder except for matters entailing justice/community approach to forgiveness. They are perceptions, yes, relative to that situation, that individual, that culture, that nation; these are common. They are not necessarily something to become alarmed about. But it benefits the overall perspective of individuals when they are aware of them because then they are free to act or not act rather than react. And in acting you have the added advantage of the hosts of space rather than the limited perspective of a semicivilized animal of the realm.

Greetings Ham. We are honored and pleased by your presence with us and most particularly with your manifestation of wisdom. We are glad to incorporate you in our platform whenever you opt to do so."

Ham(TR #3): "Thank you, Daniel and Tomas, for your graciousness in allowing me to share in this manner.

I would question you, my daughter, to make sure that I understand your question. For if I understand it correctly..you are asking if there is real sin and iniquity in the universe of universes as opposed to merely error?"

Nancy: "Yes.., I suppose I was. I had in mind, say, the actions of Hitler toward the Jews and the acts of our government with its past policies of genocide toward the indigenous people of this continent. And I was wondering if the problem was in my perceptions of these events or if the problem is in the events themselves and I thought that I might need to adjust my perceptions. But I wanted to know, if, in fact, there is something real for me to be upset about, realizing that being upset does no good and that I need to learn forgiveness."

Ham: "Your text is clear in regard to the distinction between error or evil, sin, and iniquity, and I would not labor on those topics as Daniel has very fittingly addressed that subject matter in past lessons. Of course iniquity and sin are real in a temporary sense. They are destructive of personality status. They result in ultimate extinction. You know this. The relative matters of wars, of abuses of one human being of another vary from a cultural relativism to a very serious betrayal of one's brotherhood and sisterhood, a denial of one's common unity in the family of our Creator Parents. This has to be judged contextually within the situations that are being addressed, but I am sure we all agree that right and wrong is not merely a matter of convention. There is such a thing as breaking the laws of God, the spiritual laws of God. Beyond those comments I would not care to further elaborate. Is this helpful?"

Nancy: "That was very helpful. Somehow I was hearing, and I know this must be old past thinking, was hearing that God didn't see all of that and that we should have the same perception. Thank you. You have addressed it."

Ham: You are welcome. At this time I, Ham, would bid you all farewell and return to my observation position. I love you all and I am most pleased to see your continued spiritual progress. Please call upon me as you need to for it is my joy in my supervisory capacity to assist groups wherever I can be of help. Good night."

Daniel(TR #2): "Trust might have been an appropriate topic for this evening, for you may trust the overcare of Michael and His Mission and His loyal workers inclusively. But we have launched upon deeper understanding of forgiveness and in due course we will begin to see instances of forgiveness in new light as you and we ascend in understanding of our ultimate aspect. These occasions are opportunities for service rather than occasions of grief and sadness.

Do not misunderstand for we have experienced mortal life. We have been aware of your pains and the incredible injustices which have scarred and deeply affected your world. Indeed, your cries and the mercy of our Creator Father have evinced these meetings which we now enjoy and which will bring about that corrective healing, and yes, forgiveness of others, ourselves, and circumstances to the end that we will rejoice victorious. If there is one further question we have time. (long pause)

I, Daniel, my beloved associate and my peers are all impressed with this evolutionary step, and with your courage and stamina. Go this week and observe the instances wherein your perception of offenses is altered to include compassion and humor. For there is much lightness also which comes from understanding. In graciousness, then, we reside. Farewell."

END