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Monjoronson Conversations #62 - Discernment; Agondonters – Oct. 12, 2012 - Daniel Raphael, Colorado
Conversations with Monjoronson #62
Teachers: Monjoronson and Charles
Topics:
TR: Daniel Raphael
Moderator: Michael McCray
October 12, 2012
Prayer: Heavenly Father, Creator of all that exists, we thank you for your love, your kindness, your grace and your abundance of goodness and light. We appreciate our parents, Michael and Mother Spirit and ask them to be with us as we do your work for the kingdom. We are grateful for the opportunity to work with Monjoronson and his staff. We have gained so much wisdom from this association and we enjoy sharing it with our brothers and sisters. Amen.
MONJORONSON: Good morning, this is Monjoronson.
MMc: Good morning. Two weeks ago we got together and you said you’d like to take a respite from our sessions to see how the audience would react. Is that correct?
Monjoronson is taking a respite from the public forum
MONJORONSON: Yes, that is correct. That means that I would take a respite from the public forum until questions from the audience arise. However, that does not mean that the affairs and business of the universe comes to a halt, but that it continues all the time, without cessation and that the business of Christ Michael and Machiventa and myself continues. There are those who are engaging these situations and I am pleased to report that Charles and Avila are here, representing the Son line and the Daughter line of the universe administration.
MMc: Very good. Do you have anything to say to us today before we start with a few questions?
MONJORONSON: I will defer to the others who are here. I have stated my position for my presence and my withdrawal, and I will leave it at that. Thank you.
MMc: I wonder if I might speak with Charles?
CHARLES: This is Charles. Good morning.
MMc: Hello, Charles, and welcome. We haven’t spoken in a while. Back in July, I think it was, you asked me to put together a paper, a book, on asking questions and made some suggestions at that time, and I have a few questions. Would you be willing to answer those questions for me today?
CHARLES: Most certainly.
What should the intention be for the book on asking questions?
MMc: What was your intention of the book, or what should my intent for the book be?
CHARLES: This is an adjunct to the book that is now being worked on, what you entitled as “Healing a Broken World.” The art of asking questions and the science of asking questions is a vital part of the co-creative design team process, that without competent and capable question asking the team’s work falls short of its capacity to deliver results that are long-standing and enduring. To answer your question more succinctly, you could produce a book, you could produce a YouTube video, you could publish it as an article, you could include it in the current book, if you wish, though I know that that would probably throw off the editor at this time. This is a practical and pragmatic matter. We are not looking for a trade book or something pretty to be on the shelves, as many of those questions and topics have been covered in that form before. Your focus must be upon providing a training aid to teams and to team members. You may wish to use examples within your document to point out what happens to a topic when you ask the different questions that begin to peel away the subject matter, much as an onion that is layer upon layer. This is the point of the whole work that you are to do, and is to teach all team members that the art of asking questions is a means for peeling away ignorance, peeling away assumptions and erroneous beliefs and getting to the true heart of the matter of the topic of inquiry.
Who is the audience for this book on asking questions?
MMc: So, basically, as you see it, my audience would be the team members?
CHARLES: Yes, and people who are potentially considering initiating and organizing their own local co-creative design team.
MMc: I see. I don’t see myself writing the book that becomes a wide seller, a trade book, as you say. I do see handling the book that would be for a particular audience, but the audience may be slightly larger than just those involved in the design team, that there is also a need for discernment and critical thinking in those people who are part of our audience at this time. (Charles: Yes, certainly.) With very little tweaking, the book might cover their needs as well.
CHARLES: Yes, we are in agreement. You could develop the book as an aspect of discernment, in how to ask competent, cogent questions that are discerning of the topic. This is desperately needed by ordinary people, ordinary readers of your larger audience, those who read the Conversations with Monjoronson, Special Session papers, and the Teaching Mission and Magisterial Mission papers, need to have a standard document, a standard baseline. You might call it a classic instrument for this whole phenomenon of communication with unseen beings of light, to aid readers in appreciating what they are reading and able to competently and capably examine a topic on their own, using your outline of questions. Do you understand? (MMc: Yes, I do.) Excellent. We do not necessarily want to address the audience of academia or professional forensics individuals, but particularly we want to orient this work towards this Correcting Time development as you have experienced it in the last 25-30 years.
MMc: That was the thrust of my questions. You seem to have placed me back on the right track. I still have some research left to do before I sit down and begin to write, but already the subject is beginning to take shape in my mind, so that we can talk to those in the design teams and we can also talk to those in need of discernment in our audience or the larger audience. It is what does a discerning mind think about? How do you become a discerning thinker? How do you become a critical thinker in regard to all of the strange things that might be happening of all the information that comes to you?
With pace of the vibration, social changes will increase
CHARLES: Yes, as the pace of the vibration increases on your planet, social change will increase, as will the excitability of members of this audience and other audiences, whether it is the Magisterial Mission or the financial sector of global finance—they are all affected the same way. You will see extreme opinions and “observations” by various individuals who see the contemporary or current situation in widely and even fantastical ways, seeing many options that may occur as highly probable of occurring, which may not be the case.
A discerning mind in these excited times is a valuable asset to any movement, any organization, whether it is an amorphous organization as the Magisterial Mission, or a very tight-knit community organization, such as a financial house of investments. Discernment is vital to all concerned, as it is the stabilizing weight of reasoning to assist those with lesser discerning minds to remain stable as well. Those who do not have this capacity or capability look to those who are publicly eminent, those who are recognized as leaders to give them guidance. It is helpful to those at the lowest levels of this movement to have some modicum of capability to discern—not necessarily truth from untruth—but the facts of opinions that may sway them. I hope this is clear, or have I obfuscated the situation?
MMc: No, you’ve been clear. If I can use the technical jargon that I’ve seen used in trying to convince somebody of something, you are making an argument. In that argument, you make certain claims, you back those claims up by reasons and you try to give evidence. So a discerning mind looks at those claims, reasons and that evidence and tries to decide whether or not they essentially “hold water,” whether or not they are truthful and they logically follow one after the other.
Divine Beings are always dependable and consistent
CHARLES: What you will find, if I may interject, there are cyclical or recurring developments that one can point to, whether it is the utterances of Jesus or Christ Michael, or the behavior of angels, or the behavior of Monjoronson, for example—or his statements—that you can look to the history of that individual to find out their dependability, their consistency. You will find that Divine beings are consistent, consistent, consistent, and they do not cycle and they do not create waves of excitement or malaise. They are consistent and this is their nature. Angels of the lower orders always strive to that standard of the divine, as this is the point of acumen or expertise of their own orders that they strive to achieve. You will find that those who are not divine sometimes will cycle or you will find recurring events, statements and so on.
MMc: So what you’re saying is that the divine model is consistency, yet, what we find in our human model is a continuing type of roundabout thinking, perhaps, is one way of putting it?
The human mind is lazy and has a penchant for excitement
CHARLES: Yes, lazy thinking. You must realize too that the human mind is attached to a mortal human body and that there is a penchant for excitement, for… [Daniel: He doesn’t want to say “fantastical thinking”] … and for exhilaration, and that when things become stale and ordinary, that the mortal mind seeks for excitement, and it may even cause it to occur.
MMc: At the moment, we find that many of our readers are agitated because of things they have read in other transcripts. As I understand you, you are suggesting that we look into the transcripts of the past and how these individuals in the transcripts have been portrayed in the past as a sounding board for how they are portrayed today. I didn’t do very well with that question, but do you understand what I am talking about?
Divine Mind is farseeing; mortals only by looking backwards
CHARLES: Yes, as you know, the Divine Mind is consistent and it is farseeing. It is always dependable; it is not excitable. For mortals, you are not farseeing, yet even in the brevity of your lifetime you can be farseeing looking backwards, historically. And by looking back historically, you can learn a tremendous amount, as a mortal, and you see this contemporary situation that you have been reading about, that you can look backwards in time to see whether this occurred before. You will note that it has.
Year-end predictions
Usually during the months preceding the end of a year, there are many predictions and many prognostications about what will occur. We have no qualms about that; we have no judgment about that, good or bad, but you can use that to examine the current situation. When Christ Michael says that he will return, he truly means that, and as he said in the New Testament, you will hear false claims about his return. I will not give you those citations, but I would appreciate it if you would include them in this text when you find them.
[Matthew 24:24-26, Mark 13:21-22]
Christ Michael will return when it is most fortuitous for his local universe and most fortuitous for the development of this planet to enter the days of light and life, and not before. If that occurs in the next four months, then this is wonderful; and if it does not occur in the next four months, then Christ Michael has determined that there is a more fortuitous time in the future for which this will occur. This can also be said of Monjoronson’s appearance, or anyone else’s appearance. Mortals are safest in making predictions about the destruction and difficulties on your planet than that of what the Divine might do. The calamitous developments of your planet in weather and tectonics, in your society upheavals and financial and political situations are always in flux and changing. Sometimes they are disastrous and sometimes they are not, but the Divine is always consistent.
Using the discerning mind to examine all situations
For a discerning mind, you would examine this situation and you would ask yourself and ask your friends, have we seen this sort of behavior before? And did those previous predictions come true? And then you might also want to ask, are there reasons for which we may believe that these predictions now may be true? This is a question of the discerning mind, and so, you would begin to examine evidence of those developments. Be quite sure that the arrival of Monjoronson and the eventual arrival of Christ Michael will be done with the same depth of care and planning, as that which preceded Christ Michael’s appearance on Urantia as Jesus. At the beginning of Mary’s pregnancy that Gabriel made his appearance to her, and he did this privately. He gave her knowledge of what was occurring with Elizabeth, her cousin, as a means of validating and verifying in Mary’s mind that this was a real development, and that the being that she was carrying was truly a Creator Son of God.
A truly discerning mind begins as an observer-mind, meaning that the individual does not get caught up in the fantastical and emotion-laden thinking involved in the topic to which they are examining. Surely, that is why judges must recuse themselves in cases in which they are invested or have an interest. This is why criminal investigators must recuse themselves from investigating a crime that involves someone whom they know and love, when one is not able to be objective when observing these developments. Thus it is important that the discerning mind be as objective as possible, and hold aside those elements of compassion and concern, yet to develop the information, the data, the background for the topic that is being examined in a very objective manner.
If you are emotionally involved in the topic that you are examining, then truly you will have a bias. That is why it is very important that transmitters, channels, TRs are as emotionally clear as possible when they do this work. When they are excited or tired, or have been involved in some kind of an emotional crisis, that they withdraw from the TRing activity so that what is eventually transmitted is clear. These papers that we have given you through the Special Sessions and through the Conversations with Monjoronson, are in many ways, not as directly teaching aids and lessons as those that were provided in the two year curriculum of the Teaching Mission in the various groups, such as you have seen through Rayson and the Northern Colorado Group, and many dozens of others, but they are nonetheless instructive to you as to how to live in a chaotic world. This lesson today, we hope you will take to heart peacefully, and not see it as an objection to your own officially held views and opinions about what is occurring and what will occur, but you will use it as a tool, an instrument, to assist you to gain clarity in those topics.
MMc: I certainly thank you for providing that clarity.
CHARLES: Yes, we would be less than credible if we did not assist you in examining these very statements that we are giving you. A discerning mind is a mind that seeks clarity, and seeks simplicity, and desires to see the facets that are involved in every discussion and topic.
MMc: Roxanne, do you have any questions for Charles?
Roxie: I may be able to come up with a few. I appreciate your discourse on discernment, Charles. I know our readers have had a lot of questions in their minds that have come up recently over very recent documents that were posted widely to some readers. They are having a difficult time with determining which of this material is true and which might not be. In leaving the arrival of Monjoronson and Christ Michael totally up to their discretion, I’m wondering why it was specified in this document that it would occur at the very end of December? Do you have a comment about that?
CHARLES: This, too, is a matter of discernment. We will not disclose our opinion or evaluation of that document, but leave it to be lived out by every reader of this document, that they may observe the truth and veracity of those predictions.
Having faith in the out-workings of Gods
This is something that others have called F-A-I-T-H — FAITH. One must have faith that the out-workings of Gods, in your world, will become manifest for the good of all. If all individuals of these missions believe this is true and these predictions do not occur, then there has been a tremendous disservice done to these wonderful movements, and tremendous injury to the faith of individuals of less capacity to withstand disappointment. If these predictions do prove true, then hallelujah, your world is in for a great surprise. Remember, that when Christ Michael and Monjoronson do show up in your world, whether in the next few months or next few millennia, it will change everything on your world. Yet, you will still go to the grocery store; you will still pick up the kids after school. You will have to do all of those chores and developments, and you will continue to grow in your personal life. Those will not be removed from you. You are here in this world to grow in your soul value, so that you can pursue your ascendant career into the infinite future, and its eventual accomplishments.
Be observing and patient about predictions
So, my friends, there is much for you to learn about yourselves and these predictions, and the consistency of your Divine leaders. Have patience with this; do not become emotionally involved with this; do not strive to persuade or convince others that this is true or not true, but simply be an observer. It is much like the man who climbed the tree to observe Jesus on Palm Sunday. He was deeply involved, but his perspective was skewed when he was on the ground, as he was quite short. So, he climbed the tree to have a better view and a much better perspective. This is what we advise for you as well. Have I answered your question sufficiently?
Agondonter status
Roxie: Yes, I think so. There has also been some comments made online lately that some of our readers are fearful that if Monjoronson comes within their lifetime, that they will lose their agondonter status. Personally, I don’t feel that that is true, but can you clarify it for those who are fearful?
CHARLES: I appreciate that question. The question gives us an opportunity to use our discerning mind, and ask discerning questions about it. First of all, it seems odd to us that this would be of concern to a mortal, so let us begin the questions. As there is a sense of loss of agondonter status if a Divine Being shows up during their lifetime, there seems to be a sense of loss of status invested in this concern. Do you see that, yourselves?
Roxie: I see it more in others than in myself, but I see your point, yes.
The Universe policy for citizenship is integration, oneness and wholeness
CHARLES: Yes, do you see my point? So when we look more carefully at this loss of status, then it would appear that the mortal is concerned about the eventuality of still having the status of an agondonter on Urantia when they are a part of the finaliter corps. Correct? (Right.) And I wish to affirm to you, dear friends, that this concern about status, or “one-up-man-ship,” or looking better than others, is non-existent in Paradise. This is a mortal reflection for self-aggrandizement. That may sound severe, as it is not hugely egotistical, but yet it still reveals the individual’s concern for status. Concern for status is something that brings separation between the individual and others in the universe, whereas the universe policy for citizenship is integration, oneness, and wholeness. So, the concern for the status loss of agondontership if a Divine Being appears is certainly an issue for personal growth.
The second point of this is that the individual is saying they are more concerned about their status than they are about the good that would come to the world by the appearance of a Divine Being.
Third, if this is sincerely an honest and authentic open question of just speculation, then the answer is, you will have lived through the transition of living as an agondonter to an era on your world where there are no more agondonters. You will, however, have the status of agondonter always in your portfolio, your personal record, throughout the duration of your universe existence, even into the corps of finality. Once you are an agondonter, you will forever and always be an agondonter. Even though you no longer have the “faith assurance” of the Divinity of the universe as an agondonter, you have the privilege of first-hand knowledge of the Divinity of the universe. Where once you believe with faith alone, then that is sufficient to give you the status of agondonter. Thank you for your question.
Dispensations
Roxie: Can you also clarify the subject of “dispensation.” There seems to be different categories of them?
CHARLES: I would refer you to The Urantia Book and there is an in-depth discussion about dispensations in the book, and I would appreciate it if you would cite the references or citations to that in that book, please. I do not care to discuss this as it is a policy of our staff not to give voice to information about dispensations when they will occur and when they will not. You can be assured however, that there has been a dispensation within the last 50 years, and that it is a means of assisting the new era to come about.
[Note: The Urantia Book, Paper 20:2-4; Paper 52.]
Learning skills of fortitude, patience and forbearance
In all these matters, we advise you to remain steadfast, unwavering, unchanged in your faith, neither seeking personal or social acknowledgement, or information about your status and standing. If you read in The Urantia Book, as the Spirit of Truth will always speak, saying, “This is the way.” [34:7.8.] You are learning the skills of fortitude; you are learning the skills of patience; and you are learning the virtue of forbearance, where you would like to know, but you have faith that in your not knowing, that this is the best course; that you remain minded in the mind of Christ and you remain connected in heart with the heart of Christ Michael and Nebadonia, and that you are being cared for, and that your worries are for nothing, and of no use to changing the course of the future. You are given today a most generous allotment of time as anyone. You can neither extend today, or decrease its volume for you or anyone else.
Seize the day to live in the moment of “now”
We always advise you to live in this moment, to appreciate it, and to maximize your growth and the development of your potential in this moment now. You see, you are valuable to Christ Michael, to yourself and to others when you have the capacity to live in this moment and to appreciate it as the ultimate, long lever to give you that advantage for the future. Failing to do so and dithering about in the moment is a waste of your time and of your own capacity to express yourself. You do the most good for your life and for your value to the First Source and Center, your Creator, by maximizing your development now in this moment. There will always be those outside of yourself who say various things to distract you, and this is not too much different than what will occur in the morontial realm in the early phases. As you learn to move away from the excitement and the grandeur of heightened perception that you receive during those moments, so this heightened awareness also is in jeopardy to your calm, your steady focused eye upon the future, as it relates to you personally.
This is a special time for our world
Thank you for your attendance today and for your questions. You live in a most peculiar and particularly special time in this era of enfoldment on your world in all regards and all realms and all ways. You truly are witnessing a cultural explosion that is occurring so quietly and so silently inside of a chrysalis, as the caterpillar becomes the butterfly, so you are seeing your world change from such a “ugly duckling,” so to speak, in the universe, to a beautiful pristine world that will eventually bask in the days of light and life. Good day.
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“The Beauty of Pollination” – a metaphor for what Spirit is doing on our planet.
http://www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/xHkq1edcbk4?rel=0
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