Rayson; Relationship To The Supreme - April 19, 2002 - NOCO 14

041902 NOCO 14

SE IDAHO/Pocatello Team

Daniel** See a T/R note at the end of the transcript


  1. Relationship to the Supreme.
  2. Disappointment.

April 19, 2002

Opening Prayer (Bob S): my children, let us be in prayer. Open, Father, the hearts and minds of all mortals gathered here tonight to receive the wisdom which has been prepared for their education. We thank you for this opportunity we have as elder brothers and sisters to provide this faith-building word to those, which have been provided by others, in the name of him whom we all serve. Amen.

Daniel (Bob S): Greetings my friends, my students, my partners in this quest for a more mature ascendancy. This is Daniel. I will open tonight’s meeting, but I am not the major presenter. We all took great heart from your enthusiastic discussions from the last transcript, and we shall attempt to build upon the questions and the insights which you demonstrated earlier. Later on, I shall summarize and open the meeting for further questions following those of the major presenter. So if you have questions of a general nature please hold them and we shall attempt to get at them at the close of tonight’s session. With these words of introduction I now step aside for our visiting brother. One moment please.

  Rayson (Bill): Hello, my friends, It is I, Rayson, once again with you this evening. As Daniel has said we were pleased with your good table manners as you applied yourselves to the offerings of last week’s meal carefully dissecting at times, chewing with pleasure, and swallowing for the purpose ingesting that information into intelligent and spiritually motivated souls. Because of your willingness to engage in what could be described as theoretical considerations, although they are of great practical import, we sense that you are no longer babes in arms but you have become maturing adults able to handle more substantial foods. In other words because you were willing to engage in difficult material and you did not sent me packing I have returned like the proverbial penny. [Laughter.] I have returned but not with any sense of being unwelcome or the need to justify my presence.

A number of points were brought out in last week’s conversation. It was an overview and an introduction to your relationship and my relationship with the Supreme. In the light of the fact that all of the material has a degree of relevance, it was suggested to me that it might be best to let you give input as to what you would like to have me further discuss this evening. I am not asking you to formulate questions at this time, but asking you if you have a preference, a topic, among the many that I touched upon that you would like to see amplified and elucidated. I pause now for your input. (Pause.) Does your silence betoken that you are fully satisfied with the material that was presented, or does it suggest that you are bored and prefer to move on to another subject, or perhaps does your silence indicate that you are tired and that you don’t want the responsibility of helping decide on tonight’s agenda?

 Bob S: There was one possibility. When we were discussing earlier tonight your earlier lesson we were asking about those ties when we sense our awareness of a bigger kingdom, perhaps of God, and our role in it that you discussed last time, but we came up with very few examples. Does that suggest that some more discussion on your part would help us, or do we need to just think about that some more? Do you have an idea there, or do some of your brothers have a sense of why we seem to be struggling with personal examples in our lives?

Rayson (Bill): The materials were presented in regard to the connection that some people feel to the larger reality, a vague sense of higher power etc., as evidence for the fact that there is an unconscious, intuitive awareness on the part of all living beings of their connectedness to the whole. It was not described or mentioned for the purpose that you need necessarily be seeking that sort of mystical experience because you have the advantage of revelation so that your knowledge on the subject is much greater. my point was that even those who do not have revelation regarding their relationship to the Supreme still have a largely unconscious sense of their connection. Therefor, Bob, it is not necessary for there to be anything done, as you were questioning. Does this clarify for you?

Bob S: Yes, that’s very clear. I guess I was thinking that if we are people who are somewhat more advanced than other mortals spiritually on this planet, then we would probably have had more of those experiences, but, as you say, that is not necessarily the case, and I understand that. What you are saying though raises another question and that is if all people have some of these feelings, perhaps at a subconscious level, does that improve the chances that we can make a contact with the people we meet generally, and provide where possible, some increased spiritual help and perhaps increase their spiritual education, or provide assistance to people using this potential common ability?

Rayson (Bill): Yes, you are right on target, my friend. I remind you of the Apostle Paul, who, when he discovered a state to the Unknown God in Athens, Greece, proceeded to use that as a connection to his hearers. He said "That which is unknown to you I now declare," and then preached about the First Source and Center without using that terminology, the God and Father of Jesus Christ. He was aware that there was concern that their concepts of God were incomplete. They were polytheists and so they figured they had better make a statue to any god they may have missed. Paul, wisely, was able use their framework of reference to present the Gospel. So exactly in the same fashion, if you can find the frame of reference in your friend that you have hopes of discussing, perhaps enlightening, then you are sowing seeds in good soil, and that is indeed a commendable approach As far as explaining the Supreme to someone who does not know clearly the First Source and Center, that might be a daunting task. (Comments and laughter.) About the many things that we covered last week, is there another topic that I can further comment upon?

Virginia: Rayson, I don’t know why I just thought of this. So many people whom I have experienced identify themselves as being an insignificant part, to the point that they are a drop of water finding their way to the ocean to become part of the whole, and lose their own personal identity in that whole. I just saw that picture as you were talking now. How is it possible to convince someone, who believes that they’re ceasing to exist as a person, to the wonder of Supreme Being waiting for fulfillment?

Rayson (Bill): You are correct, my friend, in seeing the vast difference in concept between the whole being conceived of in impersonal terms so that each individual person is a mere drop in the ocean of nonpersonal existence, and the reality of the Supreme, which is fundamentally personal. Each person in the reality of the Supreme is part of an organic and living unity which is conscious, and each person retains that individual personality, so that merging with the Supreme is not losing one’s self into an unconscious, eternal whole, but gaining the consciousness of the entire whole at the time of the completion of Supremacy. It is a totally different concept, yes.

my suggestion is that you say something along these lines to your friend, "But if you would consider this, there might be another way of looking at our relationship to the whole," and then proceed to describe the exciting concept of continued personal existence in an ever enhancing and expanding field of reality. Your friend, Dr. Tate, told this TR that there was no comfort for him in the loss of his wife in the framework of this first concept, this nonpersonal over-soul of creation, and he was right, for his beloved, according to this concept, was forever gone. He was not ready for such a profound discussion as the Supreme could present, but Isaac is hopeful that someday such a discussion may ensue. Have I responded to your statement, or do you wish me to say more?

Virginia: No, Rayson, that is fine, thank you. It’s just such a more hopeful picture to think in ter’s of a personal God, and to know so much more because we have contributed to our own potential.

Rayson (Bill): I thank you, however, for your comments regarding the fact that even those who personally choose extinction do not thereby cancel out the good that they did in their lives. That continues in the Supreme, of course. That is a very important point.

Virginia: That is truly a gift to all of us.

Rayson (Bill): Yes. Perhaps I need to clarify one thing, however. When we say that people choose not to exist, do not assume the Supreme cannot achieve perfected status because He is lacking the contribution of that individual personality. Other contributions will compensate; and the good, as I said, is not lost. Personality, hard to define as it is, has several outstanding features. One of them is to organize and unify all experience. The personality of the Supreme Being will organize and unify all the experience of all the personalities, creature and Creator, whom He totals within his power-personality synthesis. But we do regret those who, for whatever reason, throw in the towel and give up on the ascension career. It is not common, but it does happen.

Bob S: Rayson, we were talking earlier about those who choose not to continue, and I wondered how the Supreme compensated for that. We talked about other ways of doing that. We concluded that disappointment had experiential value. Would it be helpful for us if you talked about some of those other things you had in mind, but I leave that to your judgement if you feel we could benefit from it.

Rayson (Bill): Your question is "Prove to me there is value in disappointment." [Bob laughs, then agrees. The others feel further information will help them as well.]

Virginia: I am convinced that disappointment and mistakes and all the other problems of mortal living are the only reason that I grow or change. Go ahead. Convince me more. [Laughter and comments.] When I have a problem I look for an answer.

Rayson (Bill): Very well, thank you for interest in this topic, and be assured that I don’t have the last word for I am a learner as well as a teacher. This is one of the topics that we apply and study in the morontia career. Let me see. How to begin? Let us think about what causes disappointments. Disappointment is the distance between what you expect and what you get.

Virginia: miles apart. [Laughter.]

Bob S: Or is it the difference between what you want and what you get, or are they the same thing?

Rayson (Bill): Yes, Bob, the "want" may be a part of the expectation. I will not quibble or split hairs on that, but the wanting does not always result in expectation. There are people who want many things but have no sense that their wants will ever come to pass. Therefor, they’re not disappointed as those who truly expect a certain outcome and then it fails to materialize. Do you see the difference? (Bob agrees.)

OK, now disappointment, as I said, is that distance between what you expect and what you get. It is an ego function to some degree. It is the purpose of the ego part of your mind to plan and describe the boundaries of reality, its contours and its limitations. Therefor, it is part of ego functioning to predict the future, to calculate not only the odds of the stock market, but the probabilities of a successful vacation given the weather reports, the highway conditions, these sorts of things. In a way disappointment is inevitable in as much as no evolutionary creature can know the future with anything more that a certain degree of probability. That error envelope, whether it be 5%, 15%, 30%, whatever, is the possibility of disappointment. So, let us admit that it impossible to live a life without disappointment unless one is more or less mentally retarded and cannot conceive of the future adequately. Therefor, the cause of disappointment is in the structure of reality itself. It is in the nature of being.

The reaction to disappointment is a different matter. Reactions to disappointment can vary, and are not necessarily always negative. Your book talks about fattening on disappointment, which see’s like an oxymoron, if it were true that disappointment always results in discouragement, depression, etc. As one matures and grows older hopefully wisdom is accompanying the aging of the body. Should this gracious thing occur, that you become wise as well as elderly, you can look back over your life and find incidents of disappointments that proved to be great blessings in disguise. Had your plans come out the way you wanted them they might have led you down dark and tangled pathways. Had you gotten the job you wanted you would have missed another career which turned out to be much more soul-satisfying than the other career would have been. So many of life’s greatest disappointments turn out, in retrospect, to be great blessings.

This is one of lessons of disappointments: that you are a limited mortal, finite being who doesn’t have the wisdom to foresee all the connections that would be associated with a certain outcome that you hoped for. So, when it fails to happen, you have really no way of understanding whether it is to your benefit and a blessing, indeed. Consequently, as you grow older and realize that your greatest disappointments have often become your greatest blessings, you begin to lose the sense of frustration, of grief, the sense of failure and anger when things don’t go your way. You began to trust the over-care of the universe, which is really the over-care of God, working for your greatest benefit, your spiritual growth, your intellectual growth.

many question why Jesus, as a Creator Son, had to die as a criminal on a filthy wooden cross. Remember his human nature could not understand why this was required of him and shrank from the experience. He felt the disappointment of the "failure" of his mission. He experienced the shame of being associated with criminals. "If it be possible," he cried, "let this cup pass from me!! But, nevertheless, not my will, but Yours be done,". His divine nature, his divine mind knew everything, but his human mind was that, human, and he underwent the feeling of discouragement... but not for long, not for long. As soon as he uttered that prayer of submission he was unified, and his disappointment became a triumph for he experienced as a Creator Son the depth of degradation of human experience, and thereby incorporated into his nature that aspect which has now been given to the evolving Supreme of time and space. I guess that these words are in agreement with your statement, that there is value in disappointment, yes. Has this helped you, my friend?

Bob S: Yes, but I still have some work to do in that area. I’m not quite there yet.

Rayson (Bill): Well, I understand; and I was trying to tell you Jesus understands your disappointment feelings. At the same time those feelings don’t have to persist. They can be sublimated with the higher understanding of a more complete picture.

Bob: Thank you, Rayson. That was most helpful to me and probably the others too. (Comments and agreement.)

Rayson (Bill): Another thought about this disappointment issue: it does lead to enhancement and trust in the over-care of God. If I was not clear in my point in my previous comments, let me say this then: one begins to really believe that there is providence in the whole; that one’s immediate plans are not all that matters in life; that one is in fact a part of the larger unity, and that overall things to do work together for good.

Often one of the outcomes of disappointment is the resolution provided by forgiveness. Some people are disappointed in other people, in how they behave. Parents have a strong propensity to do this with their children. While intellectually agreeing that their children have freewill, emotionally often they are unwilling to cut the umbilical cord and continue to be blaming themselves for the decisions of their children. In another case there is the matter of self-disappointment... when you fail to do what your values dictate. Here, again, we need forgiveness which is based upon understanding. The greater our understanding, the easier it is to forgive. This is why God, with his perfect understanding, does not have to be wheedled and begged to forgive. He forgives before He is ever asked.

A final strategy to reduce disappointment is to allow your expectations to be adjusted. Perhaps you are perfectionistic in your temperament, and you put too high a demand upon others and yourself. When I say "too high" I mean too high to attain in a reasonable amount of time, which results in the disappointment experience. When we say to lower your expectations we donmt mean forever. We mean for a certain period of time, so that achievement of the goal is possible and you don’t set yourself up to be constantly disappointed by inappropriately high goals within a narrow time-frame.

Four things I can summarize here. Learn that some of your disappointments will be your

greatest blessings. Learn that you can trust in the over-care of God. Learn that your response to disappointment may require forgiveness. And learn to set realistic expectations rather than unusually difficult ones. With this, my friends, I will complete my conversation for this evening. I hope that our time together has been as enjoyable for you as it has been for me. I give you now your teacher, Daniel, who will conclude the meeting.

Daniel (Bob S): This is Daniel. my friends, have you questions on other subjects that you would like to raise at this time. I would like to thank our brother, Rayson, for his work tonight, which I am sure that we would all characterize as most helpful, and trust that it will be most thought provoking. Now are there questions in the few moments which we have remaining? (Pause.) Hearing none let us conclude our time together with a word of prayer. Shall we stand and take each other’s hand. I am told that Klarixiska wishes to close tonight’s time together. Virginia, are you willing to transmit?

Virginia: I will.

Klarixiska (Virginia): Father, Who sees us as we one day will be, help us to face our disappointments by growing, by changing, by becoming that which You do see. We thank You that You care for the whole, and that You love each of us individually, very much the same. You have given us great freedom of choice. We thank You that You have given us every Spirit being, every energy that is ours , to walk toward You. Be with each of us, seen and unseen, as we walk that path with eager arms to embrace what, one day, we will be. Amen.

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** T/R note:

Teacher Daniel on Disappointments

S. E. Idaho Transcript 4-19-02

Hi everybody,

This lesson reminded me of a session we all enjoyed years ago in the S.E. Idaho Teacher Base. We met one afternoon (at the Self’s); Nancy was transmitting Daniel. They prevailed for several minutes, getting well past the introductory remarks and into the substance of the lesson when Nancy balked, for some reason, and the connection between transmitter and receiver was broken. There then ensued an emotional hiatus between Nancy and Bill (daughter and father) before the matter was worked through, the tears were shed, the laughter was felt, the slate was cleared and the lesson resumed. It was the group consensus that Teacher Daniel would do well to simply begin again, and he did begin again -- from the beginning -- including the introductory remarks and into the substance of the lesson . .. on Disappointments! We were not disappointed, however. We were, in ! fact, all very impressed by how Daniel repeated his words, almost verbatim, the second time, past the stumbling point, through the substance, and on to a flourishing finish.

What a joy these teachers are. What a joy the human participants are as well. How I love you guys. Hold high the mission! Love, Gerdean