Return to list       Print

NEC #8 - Monjoronson - Cataclysms; Syria; Population Control - Sep 13, 2013 - Daniel Raphael, Colorado

New Era Conversations #8 – Cataclysms; Syria; Population Control – Sep. 13, 2013
Teacher:  Monjoronson


  • Spiritual Vision Is in at Least Seven Dimensions
  • Recent Cataclysms
  • Those Undergoing Social Destruction and Disintegration
  • Your Prayers to God Are Heard—his Sons Are Here to Help You
  • The Father’s Will, the Correcting Time and Planetary Management
  • The Intentional Differences Between Tub, Cwm and Nec
  • Monjoronson Speaks on Subject of Syria
  • What Are the Celestial Intentions Regarding Syria?
  • Why Can You Not Solve All Our Problems by Fiat?
  • What Is Meant by ‘Elimination’ of Assad?
  • Unable to See U.s. as a Moral Upholder
  • What Happened in Iraq?
  • Alternatives for Controlling Human Populations
  • Clarification on ‘Holding Actions’ Concerning Pandemics
  • Can Mankind Make the Tough Decisions about Population Control?
  • Finding Commonalities in Human Societies Is Not Impossible


T/R: Daniel Raphael

Moderator:  Michael McCray
September 13, 2013

Prayer:  Eternal Father, we come to you with open hearts and open minds ready to serve you and our brethren for the higher good.  We ask for the presence and support of Christ Michael and Mother Spirit during this meeting with Monjoronson and his staff, that we may be enlightened with wisdom, meanings and values for the good of Urantia and ourselves.  Amen.

MONJORONSON:  Good morning, this is Monjoronson.

Roxie and MMc:  Good morning!

MONJORONSON:  It is good to speak with you again, my friends.  Do you have questions or concerns?

MMc:  Yes, but would you like to speak with us before we begin our questions?

Spiritual vision is in at least seven dimensions

MONJORONSON:  Yes, thank you.  We, who are of Christ Michael’s realm and from Paradise, have far different perspectives of your world than you do.  We have vision that is at least in seven dimensions, whereas you have only vision in three dimensions.  Yet, even those of you who are of limited perspectives can see that your world is deeply in trouble.  Many of you now are beginning to witness what a cataclysm is all about, as they are becoming delivered to your front door by the weather and by other circumstances.  It is one thing to have a cataclysm of a social, political or economic revolution or a civil war; it is quite another to experience cataclysms from weather, from the earth, from mud slides, floods and so on.  One affects your material living, and the other affects the social, psychological, spiritual and the holism of your inner world that affects how you view the world.  Conflicts and social cataclysms between people are those that are the most destructive; they seem to corrode and disintegrate the human spirit more thoroughly and completely than physical disasters and cataclysms.

Recent cataclysms

Though you may have lost your home in a flood or a tornado, most people have each other after that tragedy, whereas in social cataclysms many lives are shattered, and even far more lives are affected by the loss and destruction of those other lives and lifestyles, careers, families and social connections.  There are those who say after a physical cataclysm, “Thank God we have each other,” and then you realize the difference, you can be thankful that you have your social, personal, intimate relationships with each other, whereas in civil war and revolutions you lose each other and many times you lose yourself as well in the destruction.

I take no satisfaction or delight at all in the accuracy of predictions we made so many years ago.  We knew that they would be coming true in actuality, that you would experience cataclysms very personally and intimately, or at a distance.  But you are now in the beginning throes of the cataclysms, the crises of this era, the “crisis turning” of this saeculum as the authors of “The Fourth Turning” suggest.  You can see then, how you are fortunate to still be alive—even though you are inconvenienced by these high waters and fierce winds, and perhaps even having to rebuild your home—you have time now to think about designing sustainable social organizations and institutions and processes, so that when communities are rebuilt, whole families can be rebuilt, whole communities can be rebuilt, because the patterns will be there for you to use.  That is why we have come to you so early — before the cataclysms come to you personally and intimately, that you would have time to prepare for these difficulties.

[Note:  Monjoronson is referring to the horrendous floods that are ongoing in Colorado, as well as other weather phenomena throughout the nation.]

Those undergoing social destruction and disintegration

For those families, communities, societies and nations that are undergoing social destruction and disintegration involving most social institutions, it is not too late.   The awareness of sustainable social designs may escape most people’s attention, as it would appear so idealistic, so remote, so removed from the possibility of what they see around them, that they will not even engage in the possibility of these designs.  Only those most idealistic individuals in universities, in the social sciences areas would even consider engaging the social sustainability design team process and the implementation process.  There are nations which are unaffected by these social cataclysms.  They and you have time to begin this wonderful work of ending the cycles of ups and downs of history, both those economic, political, social ups and downs, and the cyclical nature of society and civilization that has been typical of all civilizations in the past.

Your prayers to God are heard—his Sons are here to help you

You pray to God to help you, and so God’s Sons are here to help you.  We Avonal Sons, Melchizedek Sons, Creator Sons and mortal brother and sister sons are here, knowing how to proceed.  It is a matter then of opening your minds to accept the possibility of growth and social holism.  You pray so often; you pray for peace, but there is a transition that must be traversed between now and peace.  Asking for peace as a sudden happening of a sudden event—vis-à- vis, a miracle, a fiat of God, of Christ Michael—is in the most unlikeliest and remote circumstance to occur.  You are on an experiential journey of learning—where your personal life and as a member of a family, and as a community—how to traverse from the travesties of your life and disorder to peace.  Many have done that in their own personal, intimate, spiritual lives, how to be at peace in the midst of cataclysm and chaos.  So too, the journey of societies is even more difficult as it requires the ordered minds of many who know how to proceed with a methodology that results in peace, no matter how long it takes, how tedious it might be, and how much concerted effort must be applied.  This is the path; this is the means; this is the path that Jesus walked, the Buddha walked, Lao’-tze’ walked and so on.  All the masters have walked this path from chaos to peace.  There is a plan now for societies to do the same.

The Father’s Will, the Correcting Time and Planetary Management

MMc:  Thank you.  How does “doing the Father’s Will,” the Correcting Time and Planetary Management converge?

MONJORONSON:  In your life!  They converge in your co-creative, personal anticipation [of] welcoming to God’s guidance from within.  They converge through the plans that God has made for each individual’s life, listening to the still small voice within, rather than your FaceBook page on your smart phone.  It begins by reflecting upon your life.  All these huge conjunctures begin with the individual being open to be led.

The intentional differences between TUB, CWM and NEC

MMc:  Why does there appear to be such a disparity between what is espoused by The Urantia Book for the development of our world and what we are seeing in the Conversations with Monjoronson and the New Era Conversations transcripts?         

MONJORONSON:  The differences are radical, are they not?  It is not that they are meant to be radical, but that their intentions are radically different.  The intention of The Urantia Book was as a permanent reference to where you are as an individual in relationship to your family, your community, your world, the universe and to God.  It is a reference for your journey; it is [for] understanding the signposts of your journey, knowing where you are and how to proceed.  It is a map; it is an individual’s map to understanding the universe without reference to any religions, without reference to any philosophies—simply a grand disclosure, limited in its extent, but nonetheless a grand disclosure, compared to any other cosmological explanation that has been delivered to your world.  This is a book; it is full of wonderful material.  It does not tell you how to proceed as a society; it gives you examples.  It gives you the wonderful example of Jesus in his life, as an example for your personal life—how to be gentle, how to be kind, tolerant, patient, how to forebear the tragedies and travesties of personal relationships.  It is not a prescription for your world.

This is where these “conversations” come in, is to explain to you what is happening in your world, using the reference of The Urantia Book and the cosmological interpretations and explanations that are presented.  You have these principles in mind, but there is no blueprint to rehabilitate your societies.  There is no blueprint of how to create even sustainable societies, is there?  There is not.  This is done experientially through individuals who have faith that God lives and acts in their life experientially, knowingly, day-to-day, moment-by-moment how to proceed.  The juncture is through the curious individual who has the reference of The Urantia Book in mind and has a willingness to do God’s Will—to will to do God’s Will—and ask, “Now what can I do?” to know what is before us.  “Show me my opportunities; let me have opportunities to make choices for proceeding in my life [as to] how to fulfill God’s Will.”

The New Era Conversations and Conversations with Monjoronson are large-scale descriptions of how to live your life experientially.  The New Era Conversations are those which are shared more intimately about the factual nature of a conscious relationship with spirit and how to act and enact the Will of God in your life to uplift the social institutions of your world.  Our conversations with you will become more, and more, and more specific.  The co-creative relationship is an intimate relationship between us and you, and you and us.  Many of you have relied upon coincidence, happenstance and serendipity; these are wonderful facets that show you that you are on the path, you are in the groove, you are on your way, you are connected with spirit.  Yet, they are still remote compared to a powerful and energetic co-creative relationship where you know how to command actions into existence that are in alignment with God’s Will.

Remember that what the son desires and the Father Wills, is!  So, you begin to learn how to be an actor of God’s Will in your lives.  All of this, the grand scheme of things, The Urantia Book, the Correcting Time, the Teaching Mission, Magisterial Mission—these are all experiential educational factors.  The Urantia Book provides a sound, solid and stable and unwavering foundation upon which to act out your reforming, reconstructing and recreating sustainable social institutions.  Along the way, millions and billions of people will learn how to be in alignment and agreement with God’s Will.  Christ Michael is an incredibly ingenious Creator Son, to take this tremendous, chaotic environment of Urantia and turn it into a highly effective Urantian spiritual school.

Monjoronson speaks on subject of Syria

MMc:  In our last session with Charles, it looked like the U.S. was about to launch an air and missile strike on Syria.  Since then, Obama has decided to consult the United Nations and Congress, and now it appears that that there might be a diplomatic solution.  How do you feel about this?

MONJORONSON:  Delay is in everyone’s interests.  Delay provides for other opportunities.  If your neighbor should come and appear to violate your property, and you come to the fence that is between you and him, and you immediately punch him in the eye, then there is little recourse for other solutions, is there not?  And so, in this situation [with Syria] delay is in the interest of everyone; it may have much to do with the bruising of the ego of America in the eyes of the world, but the humility is always a wonderful facet of great growth.  The dominating bully attitude of some nations, whether they are democratic or otherwise, is not an example that we wish to have you emulate, but of patience and forbearance and seeking alternative solutions.

What happened with Mr. Kerry making the comment out of the corner of his mouth, so to speak, about sequestering and turning over the nerve gas to the United Nations or an International body was an option that was given to him, that came to his mind, rather suddenly, and although it is said that his comments were not scripted, they are nonetheless highly useful.  Our light beings are highly adept at assisting you at every level whether you are in the moments of intimate reflection and meditation, or whether you are standing in front of an audience of millions, the opportunity to bring to mind options is something that our hierarchy of light is fully capable of doing for anyone.  It is advantageous for the work of Christ Michael in the Correcting Time that this be delayed.  There will be many opportunities in the future to destabilize the Middle East and eventually the world, but why not let us delay that as long as possible?

MMc:  Every delay is in all of our interests’.  Will Assad give up all of his chemical weapons?

MONJORONSON:  We do not wish to speculate about the minutiae of these events, please.

What are the celestial intentions regarding Syria?

MMc:  All right.  Would you tell us, please, what your intentions are and what influence you have over correct developments regarding Syria?

MONJORONSON:  It is the same for the world; it is to continue to give people options for actions.  Once individuals make decisions, those decisions are sovereign.  You know that we will not overturn any decision of any individual.  We have the capacity to influence councils of individuals by giving individuals of those bodies options for thinking or decision-making or action.  You still do not see that this is a long, long, long-term effort in which we continue to increase the pressure, much as a hydraulic hand pump, one small increment at a time.  There is a check valve that does not let it leak back.  We are moving ahead; there is nothing that can stall us or stop us; we will not cease our efforts to bring your world into light.  That is why our appeal to you for co-creative partners is so strong, and that those individuals who will work with us co-creatively are being brought out of the closets.  They will have ideas and options presented to you—meaning your people of Urantia—for your societies in ways which will bring about effective growth and development.  We will not heal your world by a fait accompli, a miracle; this is not going to happen!  That is wishful thinking, and wishful thinking stalls taking action.

Why can you not solve all our problems by fiat?

MMc:  Can you explain to our audience why you can’t solve all our problems by fiat, or by miracle from the Creator?

MONJORONSON:  This is not the policy of Christ Michael.  You live on an experiential world; growth is achieved by experience.  You are also on an experimental, decimal planet and this requires that there be even less interference in the progress of societies and of individuals and of your whole planet, even at the biological level.  The ascendant journey is about growth; it is about making decisions—and not only making decisions, but taking actions that fulfill those decisions.  I have told you many times that the individual, the man who says, “Well, I’ve made a decision.  That’s that!  That’s complete,” but does the individual do anything?  No.  The decision is worthless without action.  Action is a demonstration of the capacity to fulfill a decision; it shows direction, fulfillment of intent.  Intentions are good, they show a direction, but it is the action taken upon that intention that fulfills it, and this counts far more.

What is meant by ‘elimination’ of Assad?

MMc:  Charles stated that he felt that Assad was an amoral leader and he should be eliminated.  Many in our audience find it difficult to believe that a being of light would suggest the elimination of anyone.  Can you explain this for us, please?

MONJORONSON:  Many of you leap to animalistic conclusions about our words that we use.  Charles did not suggest that you should all take knives and go at him like Brutus and his crew did to Caesar, are we?  How Mr. Assad is eliminated can be done in many ways: it can be done economically, it can be done socially, it can be done politically.  We are not in the business of physical assassination; we are not in the business of spiritual assassination.  Mr. Assad has made many [wrong] decisions, yet he is a child of God; he has many opportunities ahead to make decisions concerning his spiritual career.  It would be nice to have him eliminated from the position he has to make decisions [that] end the lives of many of his citizens.  It would be advantageous if he were retired and exiled, much as Bonaparte was.

Charles is a former mortal; he is a high being of tremendous accomplishments.  His recommendations were not for the physical elimination of Mr. Assad.  We are not a mafia of light.  We are a hierarchy of light from the Paradise Father and we do his Will, and encourage all others to do God’s Will.  Those who cut short the mortal side of the spiritual careers of their mortal brothers and sisters cheat your world and their victims of much good that could develop.  It works against everyone’s ascendant career.  Yes, it is true that God will, in the end, clean up your mess and make things right, nonetheless it takes time and is in the best interests of everyone to assist each other to grow, rather than eliminating their lives early.  Is there more to this question that you would like me to answer?

MMc:  No, I think you’ve explained it very well.  As you say, I jumped to the wrong conclusion in looking at this, and there are many ways that Assad can be eliminated without being terminated, and I thank you for your explanation.

MONJORONSON:  You are most welcome.

Unable to see U.S. as a moral upholder

MMc:  There’s another question that has come up from our readers, some of us have difficulty in visioning the United States as a “moral upholder” for the world.  We would like to think of ourselves as always wearing the white hat, but most of us know that this is not always the case.  Are we to act as a moral enforcer for those nations that are amoral?

MONJORONSON:  No, the United States can be a moral example without having to destroy other nations that appear to be immoral.  Remember that even in immoral nations and immoral societies there are moral individuals and these must not be destroyed.  Who, among the nations, can come forward and say, “These things are immoral.”  Who has done that?  There were nations in the past that used to say these things, and they no longer do.  The United States is in many ways a young juvenile in its temperament, in its attitudes, in its idealism, and its arrogance to think it can force others to become moral.  There are few parallels and analogies, metaphors that we have available that would be useful to you to explain the morality of a nation, as there are so many examples that contradict it.  Do you not think it is odd that the nations of the Middle East say nothing about the gassing of a nation’s own citizens, which has been recorded many, many times in the reign of Assad’s father?  And in Assad’s own reign?  Is it moral for a father to kill his children?  (MMc:  No.)

What happened in Iraq?

Then you are beginning to see that there must be someone who says what is immoral and what is not.  It is most unfortunate that in the immaturity of this nation’s juvenile attitudes toward others and itself that it acts out so ignorantly and so immaturely.  Actions to invade Iraq are typical of an uninformed nine year old who is large enough to bully other neighbors, when there is even no material support for doing so.  It becomes incredibly complex socially, politically and economically when there is no over-riding philosophical motivation or set of values to guide all actions of a nation, a society, community, family or an individual.  There is despaired recognition of many ideals, yet there is no uniform recognition of the commonalities of all societies.  We continue to tell you that the 3 core values of social sustainability—the quality of life, growth and equality—are the core principles and values that will eventually guide all nations and societies and communities toward social stability and peace.  These are perhaps the only three values upon which all humankind can agree.  Now, how you achieve that will probably vary tremendously from one community, one nation and one political philosophy to another.  How those are enacted and implemented will vary.  If there is agreement on those three core values then eventually there will be a similarity of action.

Alternatives for controlling human populations

MMc:  Thank you.  Heretofore, war, pestilence and famine have been the only unconscious and unintentional means of controlling human populations.  What are the alternatives?

MONJORONSON:  The alternatives, of course, are quite the opposite.  That means conscious and intentional actions, decisions, and values, to limit population for the good of all concerned.  Now, you realize, as we realize, that no one is going to come along and destroy the excess population in your world to attain that balance.  That is the domain of the historic developments of your world that will be lived out on your world without intervention by Christ Michael or Machiventa or anyone else.  Until there is a conscious and intentional plan, a design and process for maintaining stable population, then pestilence, famine and war will continue to operate to balance the population on your planet.

You do not need to be a genius to figure out that this has yet to occur before the balanced state of population can exist.  We have explained to you the cataclysms that are forthcoming and will present themselves even more powerfully on your world, across the face of all continents.  Pestilence, famine and war will still operate until there is a balance in your world.

What we have offered you is to assist you co-creatively to begin a design process for establishing the creation of a stable population, a stable social population on your world that can begin now, even before war, pestilence and famine have completed their missions.  Intentional, conscious and balanced population control is done with forethought.  That means thinking ahead, planning ahead, designing options, choosing the best of those options, which may vary over the circumstances of time, and to choose an option for action when the opportunity arises to enact it.

Long before the balance of population occurs on your planet there must be agreement between a large, large majority of the population that they must do so—meaning to invoke population controls—both through the indoctrination and enculturation of individuals and through the enforcement of that by societies in order to stay in a balanced state, in other words, to stave off—not to hold off—and eliminate the cycles of overpopulation and then decimation.  We have offered to do this planning with you co-creatively in design teams now and throughout the duration of future human existence, to assist the progress of your societies to remain level, stable and that through this stability the quality of life of everyone in a society improves, there are opportunities for growth for all individuals, and that each individual is valued equally as a social asset of societies and communities as any other individual, regardless of their intelligence, their material wealth, their social position or political connections.  The time to plan that is now while there is enough social stability to allow you to meet together to plan and to design those options.  Are you grasshoppers that wait for winter to come before being concerned about having enough to eat, or are you diligent worker ants who are storing away, making options for the future for your survival?

MMc:  I don’t have any further questions today.  Roxanne, do you have any questions?

Clarification on ‘holding actions’ concerning pandemics

Roxie:  Yes.  When Charles was speaking to us about pandemics last time, it was said, “There will be holding actions to prevent it from further expanding, but it will expand.”  For clarification, will the holding actions be by celestials or mortals, such as the CDC?

MONJORONSON:  The holding actions will be taken by celestials who will be acting with and through those individuals of health organizations, whether they are spiritually inclined or not.  The work of those institutions and health organizations are in alignment with the intentions of the Correcting Time and so they will be open to options that will assist them to delay or prevent the spread of virulent diseases.  I will end my comment there.  Does this sufficiently answer your question, dear?

Can mankind make the tough decisions about population control?

Roxie:  Yes, thank you very much.  I have another question but you have already answered a good part of it.  Concerning controlling our population in the future, during the early trial period of working with the CCDT process, and from several transcripts in the past, I gather that humanity must learn to make vital decisions concerning what couples would be allowed to procreate, when life support should be withdrawn from the terminally ill, and how we need to eliminate the criminal degenerates from our society, for example.  Knowing how sensitive my fellow man is regarding these kinds of controls against other individuals, how do we keep the population numbers from rebounding back to the same situation of overpopulation if we lack the wisdom and determination to make these kinds of decisions?

MONJORONSON:  That occurs slowly through a culture change.  It is a long-term process.  Today, whole cultures can be changed rapidly.  A whole culture can be changed radically and easily in 20 years.  It depends on the circumstances of the larger environment around people and about their personal lives.  The one major factor that is missing in your primitive culture is the acknowledgment of shared responsibility.  When the population of a society is obligated to support the genetic malfunction of an individual who is born, who is genetically crippled and who would be institutionalized throughout the duration of their life, that the cost and expense charged against society through taxes that everyone shares, there will become in this new culture an awareness that this is highly detrimental, that the cost of maintaining an institutionalized “vegetative state person” costs many thousands of dollars that could be otherwise used to support the sustainability of the community for the welfare and care of healthy individuals.

[NOTE by TR:  To paraphrase Monjoronson, there is a definite distinction between using the positive side of eugenics — support for the procreation of healthy children vs. the elimination of incapable, living individuals.  One is moral the other is not.]

In a culture that is oriented toward social sustainability, procreative couples will want to have a child who is exceptional, exceptional meaning that they are kind and gentle and healthy, and that their gene structures have integrity, and that they will not have psycho-physical or physical anomalies arise when they reach their early 20’s.  This culture understands that the children who carry these genetic malfunctions, may by the age of 35 and 40 become incredibly crippled and that they will not have a full life.  This is tremendously detrimental to the psyche and spiritual development of those individuals.  It is far more compelling for individuals to bring healthy children into existence, rather than institutionalizing those children who are in a vegetative state for the rest of their life, putting them away in institutions, waiting for the day that they will die.  There is a certain immorality to that, which those in a socially sustainable society readily see.  We are not advocating the elimination of those individuals in those institutions; we are however, advocating that in a socially sustainable society that society will choose to offer to procreative couples the opportunity to bring into existence healthy children.  This is one aspect of a change of moral culture in a nation.

Roxie:  Thank you very much.  I don’t have any other questions at the moment.

MMc:  Thank you, Roxanne.  Monjoronson, do you have anything to say to us in closing?

Finding commonalities in human societies is not impossible

MONJORONSON:  Yes.  It is essential that human societies develop a common, unifying philosophical and moral base for all decisions, of all human behavior.  This may sound impossible, but it is far, far easier to conceive than you may believe.  You simply need to find the commonalities of all humans that are worth living for and making moral decisions for your personal life and with others in your social life to guide the development of your personal life, your family and your children, and your communities and societies towards improved living.

That requires that your special interests be shared with everyone, that your competitive nature to “die with the most toys,” to engage in the competitive process of “winner takes all,” comes to an end.  You cannot take it with you, and when you do leave this life, it is better that your wealth is passed on to others, to be used constructively for the good of others, rather than for the pyramid dynasties of some families that we see and you see.  It is not that we are asking you to sacrifice your unique individuality—far from it—for a socially sustainable society does not come into existence by mandated, in-step marching, with your hands tightly held to your sides in line with others.

It is through the voluntary, cooperative organization of your society, being that the best for others is the best for you, and in doing so, you do not interfere in the lives of others, as you wish and hope that they would not interfere in your life, because you are unique, and you know what is good for you and how to improve the quality of your life, and how you need to grow.  You simply want to be considered as an equal as anyone else, not held out as less than, or held up as more than, and yet you are not the “same as.”  This change of culture is the essence of what we are striving to do on all of Urantia, and we have already begun.

MMc:  Thank you very much.

Roxie:  A lot of thoughtful material there!  Thank you, Monjoronson!

Daniel:  He bows to you.